Overcoming Anything

Overcoming Near-Death Experience with Kathy McDaniel

• Anne Vryonides • Season 1 • Episode 10

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Episode 10: Overcoming Near-Death Experience with Kathy McDaniel

What if dying became the moment you truly learned how to live?

In this extraordinary episode of Overcoming Anything, host Anne Vryonides sits down with Kathy McDaniel, author of the memoir “Misfit in Hell to Heaven Expat,” to explore one of the most profound experiences imaginable — a distressing near-death experience that transformed her fear into faith and her suffering into purpose.

In 1999, while dying from lung failure, Kathy was placed on a ventilator and put into a drug-induced coma. During that time, she experienced what she later learned was a Distressing Near-Death Experience (DNDE) — a terrifying journey through darkness and despair that eventually transitioned into an indescribable experience of Heaven’s bliss and unconditional love.

Her story is not just about survival; it’s about awakening.

 Top 3 Takeaways

  1. Hell Is Not Forever — It’s a Mirror: Distressing near-death experiences are often self-created reflections of fear, guilt, or beliefs carried from life — and healing them begins with love and self-forgiveness.
  2. The Power of “Be Loving and Kind”: Kathy’s simple mantra became her guiding light through darkness. Choosing love and kindness — even in pain — can transform every experience.
  3. Purpose in the Pain: Every struggle carries meaning. The pain you’ve endured may be the very gift that allows you to help others heal.

Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction: Kathy’s near-death experience and story
 02:15 – The illness that led to lung failure
 05:00 – Entering “The Void” and facing a self-created hell
 08:20 – The turning point: remembering God through “Away in a Manger”
 12:00 – Transition to Heaven and the feeling of unconditional love
 17:45 – Returning to Earth and struggling to integrate the experience
 21:00 – The 10-year journey before finding IANDS
 26:30 – Healing through community and sharing her story
 30:45 – What distressing NDEs teach us about God and love
 34:20 – Advice for those afraid of death or suffering alone
 40:00 – Life lessons: empathy, acceptance, and divine purpose
 44:10 – Creating heaven on earth by being loving and kind
 48:00 – Books that guided Kathy’s healing journey
 50:00 – Closing reflections and how to connect with Kathy

Connect with Kathy McDaniel

Website: www.misfitinhelltoheavenexpat.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/KathyMcDaniel
Facebook: facebook.com/KathyMcDaniel.FoxIs
X (Twitter): @MKMcDaniel3
YouTube: Watch Here
Instagram: @kathymcdaniel.foxis

Books Kathy Recommends

Credits

Host: Anne Vryonides
Guest: M.K. (Kathy) McDaniel

Disclaimer

The content of this episode is for informational and inspirational purposes only. It is not a substitute for professional advice, therapy, or coaching.

If you enjoyed this episode,

Anne Vryonides:

Welcome to Overcoming Anything, the podcast where we dive deep into stories of resilience, transformation, and growth. I'm your host, Anne Vryonides, and today we have an incredible guest who has overcome a near death experience. Joining me today is Kathy McDaniel, and she is author of the Memoir, Misfit in Hell to Heaven, Expat. And while she was dying of lung failure in 1999, she was placed on a ventilator and she experienced a distressing near death experience, and she's going to tell us all about it. Welcome to the show, Kathy.

Kathy McDaniel:

Thank you Anne. Nice to be here.

Anne Vryonides:

Before we dive, I love to ask, what's one quote or mantra that keeps you going in tough times?

Kathy McDaniel:

Something I learned and I just take a deep breath and say, be loving and kind. If I'm in a situation that's difficult, that's where I try and focus.

Anne Vryonides:

I love it. So let's start at the beginning because this is a very exciting story. Tell us about this difficult near death experience that you had.

Kathy McDaniel:

I had been caring for a friend for, about nine months in Seattle. He was battling leukemia. He died and, was left with very little, emotional, spiritual, or physical health. When, a bad flu came around, I caught it and, in short order, I was in the emergency room they. Diagnosed it as ARDS which is acute respiratory distress syndrome or lung failure, and it's a syndrome, does not react to antibiotics. They said they'd have to put me in a drug induced coma. Throw the medical book at me and maybe I'd wake up and maybe I wouldn't. So my folks and family had gathered, they all lived all over the United States, but they got to Seattle and I said goodbye. The last thing the doctor told me is that your brain will be offline and you won't be able to remember a thing. It'll just be a deep sleep.

Anne Vryonides:

Oh my goodness.

Kathy McDaniel:

So I, I don't know if you want the whole story, it's just a half an hour show, but I'll give you the highlights. I did awake and didn't know where I was'cause it was pitch dark. Later I found out that's called the Void. It's kind of a waiting room between this world and the next. And I, I did have a hellish experience, demons danger and, you know, oh my, oh my, the whole distressing, hellish part, which later I was able to, with a lot help from. Other people who've had distressing ones pretty much discover that I made my own hell. I took terrible things that happened in my life and made them worse and took'em with me and blew'em up I think that was because I was raised a Roman Catholic and I was always taught that I would go to purgatory when I died. No. Have sins or buts and, be there for a while and it's like hell, except you'll get out eventually. And so I think I manifested that. Also, I did end up in heaven which is just amazingly wonderful, loving, blissful, joyful, experience. And, my friend who had just passed away the month before, was there. And, you don't feel dead. You know, when you're on the other side, it is just you, your soul is just you. And, I was so happy to see him and it, when it dawned on me, he was dead. And I that, I was too. I was thrilled. And he told me, and he came close and said, now Mary Kay, you've got too much left to do. And I thought, oh no, they're throwing me out. So I did get sent back and against my will. And after that it was very difficult to try and figure out what happened to me. There was nothing I could it was a difficult time for me. My therapist said she didn't know what to do with this. Just put PTSD on my chart. It took me 10 years of floundering around emotionally and spiritually to finally, run across a series of synchronicities that led me up to Seattle to an IONS meeting. That's the International Association in Near Death studies where I listen to people tell their, their fluffy angel stories and, finally, somebody said, why are you always so grumpy? And I says, well, that's not what happened to me. And they said, great. And I said, what? And they said, 20%, of NDEs can be distressing and hellish, and nobody will talk about it. And I said, you feel kind of embarrassed that you went to hell. And, nobody. Wants to hear about it and they said, well, it is time. So that was, 26 years ago and I've been with Ions now, I think it's 15 years. And it's been my purpose to, fair it out, all the people that have had these distressing near death experiences. And, we have a monthly meeting, a sharing group that I, I co-host. We've had that for several years now, and we have panels, at the annual conferences and they're coming out of the woodwork. All these people who've never told their stories or they've been carrying around the shame and guilt for years, not understanding what happened to them it is, it's been proven by the experts when they do the numbers that just because you're a good person doesn't mean you have a good NDE or if, and you're a bad person, you automatically have that's just not even in the, in the statistics.

Anne Vryonides:

I don't think everybody may understand what is a NDE. So let's go back. So when you were in that in between and you felt like you were in purgatory, so was there a specific moment when everything just felt impossible and like, how did you find your way out?

Kathy McDaniel:

Yes, I went through. Many segments in that hellish experience. A lot of demons, a lot of nasty characters I ran into, and at the end, I didn't know it was the end. I was in a shack with a bunch of other. Ladies who had been sexually assaulted by zombies, like, myself. And we were told that we were now waiting for customers. And, then the snow tundra environment and the demon lady I asked her, I says, good grief, I've been here a long time and this is a particularly nasty environment and, something I don't know. And she says, oh, well, gee whiz, it's Christmas on Earth. That's always the worst day in hell. I thought, hell, that's when it dawned on me, oh my gosh, I can't believe this. And then I was angry. I thought, wait a minute, I was a good person. I don't belong here. I mean, I was a Catholic. I was, you know, I believed in Jesus. No, this is not right. And so I thought I'm a fighter. I'm not giving up. I'm gonna bug this demon lady. I'm not gonna go down, you know, without a fight. So I started singing a Christmas Carol. Away in a manger and she went ballistic. She's waving her stick at me and telling me to shut up. And the other girls start singing too. So it's a way in a manger, no crib for his bed, the little Lord. And when I got to that point, she shrieked and jumped at me. I covered my eyes. I figured, oh, well I'll just go to another part of hell. And that's when the bliss hit. So that. Finally, I think remembering God because God is not in that place. You know? Finally remembering who I really was. This soul, this perfect soul got me out of that situation and into the heavenly realm. I didn't know I was dead and so I just thought I was in another, I just didn't know what was going on. I think that was part of the process for me to be able to go through that and then to finally remember who I was as a soul and that, I didn't belong there and nobody belongs there because once you get to that heavenly realm, there is no room for anything but love. God is love. God is all loving, all forgiving, and we never condemn anybody. The message, I think that was my purpose. I think we plan our lives. I think that was something I was a brave soul to say, oh, I'll go down there and come back with this message. I got down there and thought, what was I thinking? But yeah, this is what I'm supposed to do and this is what I. People need to hear is that don't be afraid of death. I'd say at least 85% of the people I interview or come across that have these distressing ones are recovering Catholics. It's, it is that religion thing that gets pounded into you from the time you're a child that you're bad and you have to be saved and, but it's. It's not true. It's just not true. God is all loving. We get a life review. We get to see how our life went. We get to, feel how it was to interact with us, if it was good or if it wasn't so good, just to understand how our life went, what it meant. I don't regret what happened because this has led me to my purpose, which is helping other people, in this position and also people who are afraid of death and afraid of God. There's no reason to do that. And to encourage people. If you've got a religion that tells you if you do this, you're going to hell. If you do this, you're going to hell. You need to sit down and really look at that. Is that true or is that just bs?

Anne Vryonides:

Because I think that's a very valid fear that a lot of people have is, what happens if I die? What if I'm going to hell? So what advice would you have for people having been there and seeing both sides and come back with this message, with this purpose? What advice would you give them?

Kathy McDaniel:

Well, when I got back, I was suffering for such a long time, and finally I was praying and I said, look, God, the thou sh shalt nots didn't work for me. I need something positive. And I was told, in prayer to be loving, kind, merciful, forgiving, encouraging, grateful, nonjudgmental, and useful. That's it. And if you can't remember all that, be loving and kind, and that's all you gotta do. And that's just trying. Yeah. You we're human, we're not gonna make it. You know, it won't be perfect all the time but just if you live your life with that, loving and kind attitude, you'd be surprised how everything around you mellows out.

Anne Vryonides:

Yeah. That's great advice. So, when you, had that near-death experience and you came back, who was there to support you when you were ready to share your story?

Kathy McDaniel:

Nobody would listen. Therapist couldn't figure it out. So it was the Ions group. It was finally getting to people who had been there, had been on the other side, who totally believed that we're souls and that we choose to come down and, and that we're going home. Heaven is home. Being with God is, is we're just all Spirit is all just. Different pieces of God wanting to experience. And once I, I felt that comfort of their certainty around that because they had all been to heaven too. Very few people want to come back. Once you get up there, good grief, who wants to come back to earth? Usually just people like who have had died have having. Birth, they wanna go back for their baby or for their little children or something like that. But otherwise, we gotta be kicked out. Setback. If you've gots too much left to do but with that experience, you do it. Your whole life changes. And a whole life just changes for the better. Yeah. As when you see this as just not a game, but an experience and where you don't take life as seriously anymore. Yeah. So who kicked you back? My best friend that I had been taking care of that had leukemia. He was there and I, the last time I'd seen him, he looked like heck, and, but he looked wonderful. He was happy. He was younger, he. That was what was so weird. I still didn't know I was dead, so I thought, oh my gosh, he doesn't know he is dead. And then he was laughing and I thought, wow, if he's dead, I'm dead. This is great. Show me around. And then he had been showing me I remember this big book, and it was open about halfway. And I remember saying, oh, no, no, no. That's gonna be too hard. I wanna stay here with you. And, that's when I got sent back.

Anne Vryonides:

Okay, so you had a friend that sent you back for other people. Does God send you back or do you have to have complete the mission that you agreed to when you came here this lifetime? And if you haven't completed it, do they automatically send you back?

Kathy McDaniel:

If you, that's my understanding. I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of people who have had NDEs and the ones that go back unless they choose to and they don't want to. But yeah, you understand when you get back, okay, fine. You know, I have this contract or whatever I agreed to do. And when I was in that, came outta that coma and I weighed 86 pounds and I couldn't move or talk. I was so furious because I thought, how am I gonna get anything done? I can't even breathe. And then it was just through the miracle of podcasters that I've been able to get the message out. I've done like 185 of these things in the last five years. Millions of views. And you know. God works some of that stuff out, and so it's, I'm thrilled to be on your show and you're doing a great service for the world and yeah, thanks for cooperating.

Anne Vryonides:

Absolutely. This is an important message that has to get out there. I guess that's just supporting the whole thing. Like if, you had a mission and you were forced to come back and return into this frail body, and then God healed you because you. You had this mission to fulfill. And I think that's really powerful for the listeners to really hear. So if you're going through a trial or tribulation in your life, just know that you have a purpose and maybe the purpose is in the pain, and if you just move through it and not give up, then God will get

Kathy McDaniel:

you to where you need to go. I think what comes from the pain and the struggle in this life is empathy. And empathy is so much better than sympathy. If someone like you say, has the same pain you did, I've lost a baby. So I've been able to be empathetic to other mothers who have lost babies because they know, I know how they feel. So every time something bad happens to you, that can be a gift for someone else. That you'll use.

Anne Vryonides:

Yes, I agree. And that's the foundation of this podcast, overcoming anything. The pain and people sharing their story. Like you, I'm so grateful that you came on here to share your wisdom and your experience, and through that sharing is what can empower other people that they too can, make it through whatever they are facing..

Kathy McDaniel:

If they get a chance to watch positive NDEs on YouTube or anything, I think that's very uplifting and it's a good thing to do.

Anne Vryonides:

Excellent. We'll link that down in the show notes below. So what steps did you take to overcome this challenge of all of a sudden you're back to life and you're back here with a purpose. So how did you overcome this adjustment?

Kathy McDaniel:

It took 10 years, 10 years before you know that I found ions and, so it was a very, very difficult time. I couldn't understand why that happened and nobody would listen to me and they blew it off. It was drugs or dreams or whatever it was a very, very dark time for me and trying to reconcile my religion again, with, I got to where I couldn't go back to church because I couldn't believe the prayers. I couldn't believe, the teachings they weren't what I experienced, so that it was a very, very difficult time.

Anne Vryonides:

So during this 10 years where you came back and you hadn't found the support group yet, and so you felt all alone and I'm sure you were kind of calling out to God like, Hey, you brought me back. And now 10 years of challenging times before you find your resources. Like what mindset shifts or what steps did you take to survive this loneliness that you were feeling?

Kathy McDaniel:

It was tough. I'll tell you, I did a lot of writing. I'm a writer, so I thought if I could just write all of this out, it would disappear from my brain, which it didn't, but eventually it became my book. So I was stuck like everybody else in, the house when COVID hit. And, I just knew I needed to write this book. And the book is what has. Been the ability to get onto the podcast to get the speaking engagement, God knows what he's doing. We need to just trust. Just, you know, we're here for a purpose and we're gonna go home and it's gonna be a blink of the eye down here and, we get a chance to come back. I, reincarnation is a big thing, and I'm told this is not the only planet, folks. This is supposed to be the toughest gig. Earth because of the contrasts and the drama, and this is where the brave souls go. Pat yourself on the back for even being here. There you go. Enjoy the ride because, when you're in eternity, that's an eternal now thing and you think of a hundred years, it's this big it seems interminable sometimes, but just try and take a breath and enjoy the beauty and, just love one another.

Anne Vryonides:

Beautiful. So looking back, was there a single decision or action that made the biggest difference in you surviving those 10 years until you found your group?

Kathy McDaniel:

The biggest difference, I guess it was just hope, and Faith said that things would work out. I did not wanna despair. I'd heard so many times as a Catholic that's the unforgivable sin. And you know, by the way, there is no unforgivable sin. But that it kept me going. I thought there's a reason for this. There's gotta be a reason. And I hung in there, it was like, Jesus in the desert, you sometimes you just have to go through the desert re refocus your life, change who you are, what you believe. It's a process. It's not an overnight thing.

Anne Vryonides:

So what life lessons did this experience teach you?

Kathy McDaniel:

It taught me not to be afraid of God and not to be afraid of death we're all one, we're all a family. I love the idea that we just, we're all souls, all part of God. And when we come down to earth, we put on these human suits, and the real us. That part that is soul, that bubble of light and love is the same on everybody. Your discrimination kind of falls away because you don't just look at a person's skin ethnicity, where they're from, because you know that same bubble of soul of God is in every single person. So that, that was really an interesting, wonderful thing to realize.

Anne Vryonides:

How has your life changed for the better, having gone through this near death experience?

Kathy McDaniel:

I'm happier. I know where I'm going. I know I have a purpose

Anne Vryonides:

So if someone is going through a difficult time right now, or maybe they went through a near death experience and they don't really have resources, or a support group, what advice would you give them right now? Or maybe someone who is, on the edge and they think that they might be passing and they're scared and they have that fear of death. What advice would you give them?

Kathy McDaniel:

If you've got a computer or a phone, you go to IAD s.org and there are hundreds and hundreds of sharing groups and, speeches, seminars of the most positive souls we understand, we've been there, we're encouraging, we're happy. So please come join us. Join a sharing group. There's one for every religion. There's one for every kind of person. Everybody's welcome. It's free most of the time. The seminars and the sharing groups. And if there is somebody out there that's had a distressing one, please look up the distressing sharing group. It's, the second Thursday of the month, a really upbeat group. A lot of people go there to tell their stories for the first time ever, because they know it's, nonjudgmental. Accepting people know what you've been through kind of experience, and it's just been life changing for so many people that they feel like they can be happy again.

Anne Vryonides:

That's wonderful that group exists to help people. So how do you view adversities now or when a problem comes up in your life?

Kathy McDaniel:

I planned my life and everything that was in it, I just say pretty much what was I thinking? But then I think, well, right now I've got sciatica. And it's like, why did I pick this pain? It's hard to get up and walk around. I can't do this. I can't do that now. Okay. You planned it for a purpose. I don't know what that could be, but I need to be gentle around that. I need to be reflective around that. I need to, maybe there's other people that have this condition that I can. Console or commiserate with, maybe this'll lead me, to a particular doctor. I know. I, I've already run into a physical therapist that gave me exercises that caused this, and she was fairly new, and I said, I think you need to be in the future. You need to not give the same exercises. The repetitions to a 79-year-old lady that you would to a 35-year-old football player. There's a difference there. We break easy. So maybe that changed her whole course of what she's gonna do with her in the future. Maybe she'll go into geriatric therapy. I don't know. You just show up. You do the best you can and figure, okay, I plan

Anne Vryonides:

this. There's gotta be a good reason. So what advice would you give the younger version of yourself? Oh,

Kathy McDaniel:

Kathy, Everything you think you know, you're gonna have to relearn and it's okay. It's okay. You're a nice person. You'll figure it out. But just hang in there.

Anne Vryonides:

I felt that. So knowing that we all create our reality, what advice would you like to share with people? That can change their life.

Kathy McDaniel:

Well, creating your own reality, I think is, it's inner work and it's a decision. Mine was to be loving and kind, in all situations. And that's not always easy. That's a real challenge. But I have found that changes the people around me if I don't react to their snarkiness or their, you know, whatever, if I'm just. Kind back, whether you're in traffic or in the grocery store or wherever people soften. People are so used to having those walls up and protecting themselves. It is just a breath of fresh air to have somebody be nice to them. It works.

Anne Vryonides:

I like that. So is there a book that helped you on your journey that you can recommend for the listener?

Kathy McDaniel:

Well, for anybody that's had the distressing one Howard Storm had a book might descend into death and, nancy Evans Bush did three books, dancing Through the Dark. She's my guardian angel. She wrote the foreword for my book. She was one of the first people to actually bring this forward. So for me it was the people that had the distressing near death experiences that eventually came to the same conclusion that I did, that God is all loving and all forgiving. There is no hell. We've got free will if you wanna go to hell, you make your own. No, that's just how it works. God doesn't send anybody to hell.

Anne Vryonides:

Alright, we'll link those down below. So this has been very enlightening conversation, that not a lot of people have this wisdom that you have to share. So where can people contact you, follow you and find your bulk?

Kathy McDaniel:

My book are on Amazon. My web website's the same name as the book, www misfit and hell to have an expat.com. And, I've got a Facebook page, same thing. Expatriates are people who live in one country and say, go to China and do some work in a factory for somebody and then come home and we're all expats, have an expats. We start there, we come down to earth, we do our work and we go home.

Anne Vryonides:

I love that Thank you so much for being on the show. Please share this episode with someone who might be facing a similar challenge, or who has overcome a near death experience, and don't forget to subscribe and I'll see you next time on overcoming Anything.