Overcoming Anything

Overcoming PTSD & Anxiety with Mark Blacknell

• Anne Vryonides • Season 1 • Episode 20

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Episode 020 — Overcoming Depression, Anxiety & Emotional Trauma with Mark Blacknell

When depression and anxiety become your identity, it can feel like there’s no way out—only survival. In this episode of Overcoming Anything, host Anne Vryonides sits down with Mark Blacknell, a former Marine who grew up in working-class Philadelphia, served time in jail, and fought through severe depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation. Today, Mark supports death row inmates and senior citizens in nursing homes, and shares a grounded, no-fluff approach to healing: stop, address it, get support, and build a daily practice—one moment at a time.

Mark Blacknell is a former Marine and meditation practitioner ordained in the Soto Zen tradition. After years of living with severe anxiety and depression, Mark’s message is simple and powerful: healing starts when you stop running, address what’s happening, and practice—one step at a time.

3 Key Takeaways
• You can acknowledge mental illness without shame—and that honesty can be the beginning of healing
 • Recovery is practical: stop, address it, resist the “escape routes,” and use available resources
 • Meditation doesn’t require perfection—just the commitment to “sit on the mat” consistently

Timestamps
00:00 — Welcome & introduction
03:10 — “One step at a time” and practicing presence
06:30 — Naming mental illness without shame
10:40 — How anxiety and depression hijack the body and identity
15:20 — Rock bottom, suicidal thoughts, and not giving up
20:30 — Leaving everything behind and traveling to Israel (turning point)
27:10 — Meditation retreats, Zen, and the power of daily practice
35:40 — How meditation helps death row inmates and seniors
41:30 — What to do when anxiety shows up in your body
47:10 — Practical guidance: stop, get help, and don’t complicate it
54:20 — Where to connect with Mark + Kashi ashram

Links & Resources
Mark’s Website: https://www.stareatthewall.org/
Kashi Ashram (Retreat / Community): https://www.kashi.org/
Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind: https://a.co/d/1Uug04F

 

Immediate Support & Crisis Lines
988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: Call or text 988 (24/7, free & confidential)
SAMHSA National Helpline: 1-800-662-HELP (4357) (treatment referral & information)

Finding Treatment & Providers
Find mental and substance use disorder treatment facilities, https://findtreatment.gov/
Find support, understand common questions, connect with professionals, https://www.samhsa.gov/find-support

Credits
Host: Anne Vryonides
Guest: Mark Blacknell
 
 Disclaimer
The content of this episode is for informational and inspirational purposes only. It is not a substitute for professional therapy, diagnosis, treatment, or medical care. If you are in crisis, call/text 988 or seek emergency support immediately.

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❤️ Anne


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Speaker:

Welcome to Overcoming Anything, the podcast where we dive deep into stories of resilience, transformation, and growth. I'm your host Anne Vryonides, and today we have an incredible guest who has overcome emotional trauma. PTSD, depression and many other things, and he has some great secrets to share. So joining me today is Mark Blacknell He's a former Marine. He came from a working class family in Philadelphia. He even went to jail. He came out and now works with guys on death row and senior citizens in nursing homes. So this is gonna be a very exciting conversation and let's go ahead and let it unfold. So welcome to the show.

Speaker 2:

Oh, thank you so much. Wow, that was good. You got that down pat, and you made me sound pretty good, so thank you for that.

Speaker:

Hey, we're just letting all the greatness inside of you just out of the floodgate. So

Speaker 2:

cool. I love this concept. Thanks so much for having me on.

Speaker:

Yes, my pleasure. So before we dive in, I always love to ask, what's one quote or mantra that keeps you going in tough times?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that one's simple. It's one step at a time, or even if you break the step down one moment at a time, and then you can break that down to like one millisecond. I don't know what the smallest fraction of time is, but that's kind of the way I work and it's a miracle that I can even actually practice that.

Speaker:

And how has that served you in your life, embodying this quote?

Speaker 2:

Well, I mean, for instance, right now I'm here on this podcast. So I'm here. I'm totally here. I'm with you. I'm listening. Nothing's running through my mind, but this podcast. But after this podcast, I have to pick up the kids, take'em to Starbucks. They want to go to Starbucks, and they get good grades. So I reward'em. And then at six 30 tonight, lighten up and route down the meditation group. I, co-lead is having a very special guest at an event, and I gotta go to that and set that up, but. Now I'm back with you.

Speaker:

Amazing. Well, thank you for being a hundred percent present. So let's go ahead and start at the beginning. What is the most difficult thing you've ever had to overcome in your life?

Speaker 2:

Definitely in broad terms, I will say mental illness. Now, some people hear mental illness and immediately there's a snap judgment there. This guy's saying he's mentally ill. Yes, I'm saying I'm mentally ill and there's no shame in that, and that's part of the reason why I'm here to tell my story of how I acknowledged it and then stopped everything and actually addressed it.

Speaker:

Amazing. No judgment here. And thank you for opening up and sharing your journey because I'm sure there's a lot of our listeners who may be suffering with this right now, and maybe they're not going for help even though they need it because they're afraid of the stigma. And so for you to come on the podcast and speak openly about what you're experiencing and how you've overcome it is wonderful. So thank you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's what it's all about. And sometimes it's a lack of resources. It's not just the stigma, it's resources. It's also when you're in a state of depression or severe anxiety or panic or in a really low period of your life, you're not thinking straight.

Speaker:

Definitely.

Speaker 2:

So it's not so easy to address it. So my message is the first thing we have to do is just stop. Stop and address it and admit we have a problem.

Speaker:

Okay. So what made this experience of depression and these emotional challenges for you, particularly hard?

Speaker 2:

Oh man. It consumed every aspect of my life. Just having enough energy to wake up in the morning, just having enough. Energy to cope with all the anxiety that affected my physical body, neck pain, back pain my throat would close, I would get dizzy. I would feel, depressed and the feeling was in my stomach. This little, I knew I was gonna go through a depression episode when this feeling came in my stomach, which would trigger the anxiety. So it would just be a circular type thing that just one thing feeding off of another. And I completely identified with it to the point where I would just tell people straight out. Please don't judge me. I have anxiety severe, that was my whole identity.

Speaker:

So did you always have this or did it get worse after your experience in the military that triggered and exacerbated those symptoms?

Speaker 2:

We all have our childhood stories and I'm very thankful to my parents. But yes, there was some household, I would say, stress and trauma. And then I lived in Philly, in the early seventies to mid seventies, and we had this hockey team called the Broad Street Bullies, where they just pummeled their way to two Stanley Cups by beating. The opponent Uhhuh. So we thought we wanna be broadtree bullies. We would just, there was so many bullies and you had to, you could either fight'em or run, but in my case, I had to fight'em. So it was just constant violence, that my parents weren't even aware of back then. Kids kinda. Ran wild and schools were not as aware of that type of thing. It was more tolerable for men to fight like deer, bucking heads, you know.

Speaker:

Yes. So was there a specific moment in your, depression, in your emotional challenges where you just felt like, this is just impossible and I don't know how I'm gonna make it through, and how did you feel

Speaker 2:

every day? To the point where, of course, I entertain suicide and I knew how to use weapons. I'm excited. So yeah. Really dark periods. I look back and I don't know how I made it out of it, to be honest. I really don't. In those moments, it felt like there was no hope, but I never gave up. See, that's the, that's where the military kind of helped me. And the way I was raised, you never give up. You never give up. So some of those kind of negative. Lessons can be turned around into positives.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

I truly believe that there's always a higher power source God, that is guiding you. When you have a purpose, you can go to the edge of the cliff, they're not letting you go over because you have a purpose.

Speaker:

You are supposed to go to that edge to help others pull others back off that cliff.

Speaker 2:

Well, easy to say looking back, but

Speaker:

Yes, at the time it is challenging so,

Speaker 2:

well, I, I call it the coach. Sorry to interrupt, but

Speaker:

who's

Speaker 2:

okay? I, I just call it the coach. I, I try to stay right here as opposed to going out into the universe. It's not that I do not believe in God. I do believe in God. In my own way, but I call it the coach, which is like the culmination of all the things we know are good for us. All the good lessons, all the good teachers, all the good coaches we've ever had. They're there. If we can hear them right. And sometimes we hear'em, but we can't follow'em. Yeah. And then that makes us feel worse. We can't do what the coach, what we know is good for us.

Speaker:

So was there like a rock bottom turning moment or did someone come into your life that, that helped you out of this dark point?

Speaker 2:

I think it's interesting'cause I hit rock bottom and. The way I got myself out was to quit my wonderful job working for the governor of Pennsylvania. I left my wife. I cashed in my retirement and I took off to a kibbutz in Israel.

Speaker:

Wow. Life changing moment.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And I made a little documentary movie that I hear if you are high. It's really good to watch. Otherwise I wouldn't recommend it.

Speaker:

So should we link it in show notes or not? No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2:

No, not that, no, just, THC, which is legal now. I wanna stress, I'm talking about legalized, prescribed marijuana. If you watch the movie Woke Up Alive in Israel, you might get something out of it. It's about my journey, to Israel.

Speaker:

Okay. All right.

Speaker 2:

And that kind of turned me around, the Israeli people. It's controversial these days, but I was homeless. I had no plan. I was over there. I looked like a hermit. I had a huge beard. My hair was all crazy, and they just brought me into their homes and, this gets me a little, oh,

Speaker:

sorry. Oh no. Oh my gosh. Thank you for being so authentic and open with me.

Speaker 2:

I get choked up'cause of all that's happening, you know, and Arabs as well, they brought me into their homes and fed me as well. So it was both ways. So I got to see the best of both cultures and realized how similar they were and how much they, have in common. The commonalities aren't stressed, obviously. So my movie was to try to bring out the commonalities through the natural world and show how both cultures are influenced by it. It didn't do very well because that doesn't sell

Speaker:

well. How did this experience transform you?

Speaker 2:

I ate, started eating differently. I lost weight. I learned to meditate for the first time. It was vipasana meditation. There, at the time there was this retreat out in the middle of the desert, and Israelis were going there and droves and coming out, completely changed. Although oftentimes a retreat like that, it has a short term effect, and then you go right back to where you were. I was hanging out with all these cool people who wanted peace, and they were artists and spiritual type folks, and they got me meditating. Now, my posture was terrible looking back, and, I wasn't really committed, but it gave me a little taste. That's the beauty of meditation. If you get a little taste, it can always, you can always do it at some point, it's kind of like, uh, medication. You have to experiment with the right meds. You, and if you give up, you're never gonna find the right meds. But if you don't give up, you probably will find the right combination or med in time.

Speaker:

So how did you continue on that journey?'cause you said sometimes you go to these retreats and you're like all like motivated and you're disciplined, and then it dwindles off. So how did you maintain that edge

Speaker 2:

to that? Well, I didn't, I mean, I was chasing a spiritual or authentic feeling, but I had no. Concept of how to actually practice it daily and implement it into my life. And I didn't find that until Zen Buddhism. Wow. So I met a guy who I really admire and he said, read this book. And I had just gotten back from living. On the island of Maui for six years. And the last thing I wanted was New age philosophy, or I was just turned off by it all, because I saw such hypocrisy there and elitism. So he was like, read this Zen book. I'm like, nah, I'm not. Yeah, I've done it all. I don't wanna, he could just, I'm telling you man, you should check this book out. It's the real deal. So I did, and after a few pages, the guy was basically saying, Hey, just put the book down and meditate. I'm gonna keep talking, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. To try to ins, to show my appreciation and help you along. But really you don't need me, you don't need the book. Just get down and meditate. And I just started doing it, and then it built from there.

Speaker:

Wow. And so how has meditation changed your life today?

Speaker 2:

I don't make any promises. People, I'm in a robe, by the way, you, the audience can't see. I'm in a robe in what we call a rocka sue, which is a vest. And I'm ordained in the Sotos end tradition. And people come to me. And,, what was the question? I'm so sorry.

Speaker:

I was so into your story. I kinda lost it

Speaker 2:

too, where I was going with that.

Speaker:

I was in the present moment, but I, I don't

Speaker 2:

know what happened.

Speaker:

Oh, that's okay. You know why that question wasn't meant to

Speaker 2:

be? I think it was something,

Speaker:

so how has meditation, it

Speaker 2:

happens to me sometimes. I'm so sorry.

Speaker:

No, that's okay. How has meditation changed your life?

Speaker 2:

Oh, yeah, that's what the question was. So it changed my life totally and completely, but I make no promises. There you go. Now we're back. Yes. Full circle. I make no promises because it's something that has to be done. It has to be practiced each day, really for a long period. Maybe you can skip once you've been doing it for, five years or so. But it has to be done every day. It's actually the practice of balance, the practice of the balance of nature, really. You're just putting your body and your mind and your emotions along with it in a safe, balanced position so that when they come, you can observe'em. And not panic or not be afraid or not run. You're there you're in that position. You don't move, not even to itch. In a perfect world.

Speaker:

Okay, so share with us your philosophies on meditating.'cause some people are like, sit down and clear your mind. Don't let any thoughts in other people say, let the thought come in, acknowledge it, let it go. Oh, so how do you coach people?

Speaker 2:

I don't even go that far. I simplify it even more than that. I say sit down on the mat. That's it. Because if you do it every day you won't explain it that way. I'm not saying that the people that explain it that way don't do it every day for years and years and years. Perhaps they do and they're just trying to express their appreciation in their own way. So I wanna make that perfectly clear upfront. But the way I help people is. Get into this position, put yourself in the balance position and see what happens. No intent, no expectation. No. I'm gonna fix this. No, I'm gonna do this. Just let it come. It'll come. Like you said, nature balance. God will start to talk. The coach I like to call it. It'll start. Saying some cool things to you, like, why don't you loosen your left shoulder a little? Dude, you're kind of tight there. Are you paying attention to your breathing? Because it sounds like you're not, like little things like that. And it's so subtle. It's really hard to describe. So I always say, don't worry about that, just do it. Just do it. And all that'll, all your answers will, you'll answer your own questions. You won't need a teacher.

Speaker:

Okay? I like that. I like that philosophy. Like just practice sitting on your mat. Just step one, sit on the mat.

Speaker 2:

It's not original. That's what the guy, Suzuki Roshi who read he wrote a book called Zen Mind. Beginner's Mind. He's in my direct lineage. Okay? So he is like my, my, let's see. My father, grandfather, great-grandfather. My zen lineage. Like I have this big scroll and it, traces back from Buddha to me. Wow. So he's like in my family tree, my bloodline. So he's in my head constantly. He's the one that said, just do it. And in his book he says, just do it. I'm gonna keep talking. I'm, Hey man, I don't want anything from this. And he's, he was Japanese, so he didn't say it like I'm saying it, this is my interpretation. He was much more. Zen master, proper. Then this is my interpretation, and if I offend anyone who, in the Zen lineage, I want to apologize upfront.

Speaker:

Wow. I got goosebumps when you said that it was wow. It's definitely in your ancestral line and this is your purpose. Like you were meant to bring this forth. How has your. Your process helped death row inmates and the senior citizens that you're helping in nursing homes?

Speaker 2:

Man, it's really it, like I said, it's the practice of the balance of nature. So folks that have committed to it and are doing it, they start acting more naturally dependent. It doesn't even matter their circumstances. Death row. Beach house in Vero Beach, million Dollar Beach House in Vero Beach, senior in an assisted living home, whoever, wherever. If they commit to it, they start acting more naturally, which means less worried, more appreciative of life. Funny, happy. Not all the time, right? Not all the time. The guys in Death row have it tough. I think it pushed that prison mentality, not all the way out of'em because they have to protect themselves. They can't completely get out of the prison, ethics and they have their own honor code and their. It's a whole nother world. In some ways it's more honest than out here, believe it or not. In some ways it's not. But the point is that it just helps'em be them themselves and actually start to lighten up and help one another. So it's been amazing to watch. It's a very slow process though, even out here in the free world. Not many people want to just sit there and stare at a wall. It's not a real, sexy or appealing thing to offer people, No promises. Just sit down. No expectations, just do it. Stare at the wall in silence. Don't even itch. Most people are like, oh, whoa. Okay. Yeah.

Speaker:

So how has this helped heal your depression?

Speaker 2:

Oh man, it's unbelievable. But I still get that sinking feeling of depression. I still get that tension in my neck, that anxiety, that pulling on the throat, I still get it, but somehow it's sort of has a place in my life. It's become part of my life in a positive way, which is hard to explain, but on a basic, in the most basic sense, it was that pain that got me to meditate and it was that pain that helped me have the courage to get counseling and go to VA and say, I need help. You know, the Veterans Administration, my daughter was about to be born in Maui. I said, I gotta do something. I cannot be in this state and have a child. So I went to the va and then of course, a year or two of experimentation with meds. Along with counseling. All that was a process. And then the meditation came at the perfect time. I had to be relatively stable and safe to even consider sitting there still in front of a wall.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker 2:

So I think the mental health help, just reaching out, acknowledging, stopping, making it a priority and using available resources to get help was the first step really.

Speaker:

So when you feel like that anxiety coming up in your system, you feel it in your neck, you feel that tightness in your throat, what do you do specifically now? Do you say, okay, wait, time out, let me go to the mat? Or do you say, what emotion's coming up for me? And then go meditate on that? Or how do you transmute it

Speaker 2:

Bre breathing is the, just paying attention to my breath. But that's so quick. And it just happens now. It's like a guy who's shooting, or a gal who's shooting basketballs, and they've been shooting them their whole lives and now they're in front of 30,000 people and they gotta make that shot or their team loses, if they overthink that, it's not gonna be good. Right. So it's like that, but it's breathing, but it's also. The, the little voice of me saying, man, oh, poor Mark. I can't believe he, he actually went through that and Mark, you're go, you're still going through it. It's still there, mark. You know, so it's kind of like compassion for myself as opposed to. Tensing up and thinking something's wrong, and oh God, oh no. Is it gonna be another anxiety attack? Am I gonna be depressed for six months straight? That doesn't even occur to me anymore, but it took me years to realize, oh wow, I got that. That's it's cool now. Like I don't have to worry, man. I'm not going back there. The confidence had to build. And then it took my family and friends more years than that to believe it mark's actually stable. Holy god. Except now they all believe it, except my mother. She believes it, but she's always what's wrong? Like nothing Mom.

Speaker:

She's, wow, that's great because I think a lot of people don't always do that. They don't have that compassion for the part of themselves that went through something challenging or the part of themselves that gets triggered, so they quickly judge themselves because they feel like they shouldn't feel that way, or I shouldn't be depressed. My, my life looks good on the outside. I think that's great advice by just having compassion and saying, it's okay. We've been through that, but we're not going there anymore. And just that self-talk.

Speaker 2:

Right. And that's easy to say, but it's harder to do.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

Like I said, the person shooting the basketball, having compassion for yourself is one shot at a time. You're not gonna swish it right away. You gotta keep shooting man until it's swish miss. Then when you miss, you're like, ah, I got the next one, swish. Or maybe you miss three times in a row, but it doesn't get into your head.

Speaker:

Yes. Build those a self-compassion reps.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. It's kind of like somehow your brain is rewired. It is mystical in a sense. I don't focus on that, but it is almost the balance of the universe or the balance of God. Once you become receptive to it and open and you don't block it out, it knows you're ready. So it's like, all right. This person, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get him a little, I don't know how to explain it. I don't wanna say anything about it being, divine intervention. It's hard to explain, but it's so I'll just call it the coach. The coach knows what to say, and then,

Speaker:

yeah,

Speaker 2:

and I know what to do. I don't question the coach. I'm just like, oh, yeah, that's no good man.

Speaker:

Just coach me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I'm thinking about like some relationship I messed up. 10 years ago, and I'm like, whoa, okay. Nah, that, that's not, don't go there, man.

Speaker:

So how has your life changed for the better since you found meditation?

Speaker 2:

Ah it's just unbelievable. First of all, I. Didn't really ever, like any job I ever had in my life. I was just not into it. You know? I was always planning my next step, or my next vacation, or my next party night, or my next romantic interlude, or my next whatever, you know? It was always what was next. After work,

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker 2:

How do I get up and go to work and make it look good? So that's changed now. This meditation thing, this just being like a cool cat, just like be Mark is my whole life. It's my job. It's my. Job. It is just my job. Even if it's my free time, it's my job, it's all my job, but it's like a job I love. And it's a great example for my children. Here's dad, he is now I want to caution everyone in a very serious voice. We gotta be careful thinking we're the good guy, woman, or other. We have to be very careful thinking we're doing things for God. First, I do this for myself, for the quality of my life and to appreciate life itself.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

Second, I do it for my family, particularly my children. Third, I do it for my community. What's left over? I do for God. Okay. I don't do it. But listen, I'm this guy at work was like, mark, are you a man of God? And I was like, no man. I'm just a man. I'm just a man. If there's any God in it, that's up to God, you know? Yeah. It has nothing to do with me. So we have to be careful. We can hurt people with the best intents.

Speaker:

Got it. So true. So if someone listening is going through depression right now, or maybe they have like uncontrolled anxiety, what advice would you give them?

Speaker 2:

The first thing I would tell them is just address it. Number one, you gotta stop what you're doing and make it a priority. You have anxiety and depression, you know it. You're suffering from it. You know it. But it's right there. So it's sometimes hard to admit or you try to hide it. The second thing is the escape routes are so easy when you have that, like for me, give me three beers. Oh man, I feel perfect. So that's a temptation. It's, I struggled with alcohol for a long time. It's hard not to just go in the fridge. And drink three beers. It's much easier than sitting and staring at a wall for 30 minutes, or 10 minutes or 20 minutes. So the escapes are the problem. Okay. Address the issue, resist the escapes and make it a priority to actually address the issue long term or sustainably. Drinking drugs, whatever it is your outlet is. Shopping, gambling, doom, scrolling. There's a big list nowadays of what it could be to try to help you forget your pain, but sooner or later you gotta stop, address it and make your priority. Make it your priority. Once you stop and make it your priority, then you can look at what resources are available for you to practically address it, okay. Which means, it doesn't mean going to an ayahuasca ceremony. You're not gonna come back cured from ayahuasca ceremony. You can pray till you're blue in the face and it'll help. It'll help for sure, give you some strength, but you gotta practically address the issue. That's the first step.

Speaker:

Okay. And any suggestions for how to practically address that? Look for like a counselor or,

Speaker 2:

yeah, like I have a bro, I hold brochures now for community mental health. Resources, free counseling. You can walk in there anytime during their business hours and they're not gonna turn you away. So I, I don't know if every county or every place in the world has that, but I'm sure there's some way, if you have insurance, you can look into, if you're on a go, if you're on government insurance, you can see who offers it in your community. So the first step is just. Finding the resources and following up and making it a priority, like instead of vacation, instead of going out, getting drunk, instead of getting high, instead of whatever. You gotta make it your priority, even though it's gonna be a fight because you're not in a clear state of mind. So you have to just push through it, just get help. Don't complicate it wow, mental health medications don't work, or Modern medicine's no good, or it's all big business. Those type of thoughts are not really gonna help.

Speaker:

Okay, I'll see what, national resources I can find and link some of those below in the show notes to help people. Oh,

Speaker 2:

cool. So that's awesome. Thank you.

Speaker:

Absolutely. So looking back, having gone through this whole experience of your life journey, what have you learned about yourself?

Speaker 2:

What haven't I learned about myself? The first thing is that. In the big scheme of things, I know absolutely nothing. I know nothing, but within that little nothing are my circumstances. I'm a nothing in a body, in a little bit of a personality, as you can tell.

Speaker:

Yes, I love it

Speaker 2:

in a community in some circumstances, right?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But what do I do with that? What do I do with it? So I've learned to think very practically, not waste my energy unnecessarily, keep things as simple as humanly possible, which is the little voice that says, mark, you're getting upset about this. Can you do anything about it? Right now, you know the crisis in the Middle East. Can you do anything about it right now, mark? Maybe I can send money to help. You know the people in Gaza who have been through hell? Maybe I can, maybe I can't. I tried to make that movie, to do something good to bring people together, you know? So these voices come, what can you do? And then you have to move on. You can't get stuck. What can you realistically do right now? And what I learned about myself is I'm very limited in what I can do. I have many flaws, many quirks. Some would say I'm eccentric, some would say I'm mentally ill. Some even say I'm autistic. And I thank them for that because to me, all of those are compliments.

Speaker:

Yes, you're divinely perfect just as you are.

Speaker 2:

Well, imperf imperfectly perfect. There you go. That's the, we're all perfectly balanced. We all have a niche in the universe, but we might forget it or never even realize it, which is sad that some folks go through their whole lives and never realize their sort of niche. That they have a niche, that everything has a niche in the natural world, but, i'm very careful not to focus on other folks, you know, other folks, this, other folks that,'cause I don't really know. Maybe everyone in the end does find their niche?

Speaker:

I will definitely set my intention that our listeners find their purpose, find their niche so they can feel complete and have the life experience and the joy and the radiance you have and that you're sharing with everyone.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's cool. And then they can like help other people, which, like I said, it's for me, I help PE people because I love the quality of life it provides and the appreciation and the fun. Then I'm careful, mark, you're not the good guy. Mark, come on dude. You're not enlightened any more than anyone else. Everyone is enlightened, right, mark, you know, so you have to balance it, and that's kind of what Zen is. It's never getting stuck on a fixed idea of the world or yourself or others, or even Zen.

Speaker:

I love it. This has been such an inspiring conversation, mark. Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us. Where can people connect with you, follow your work, or learn more about what you do?

Speaker 2:

Oh boy. I think it's www.stairatthewall.org.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

My social media person is not gonna be happy. That's wrong. And then my social media person, Andrea. Hi. Thank you so much. I owe you my life. She does all this stuff and I don't know what she's doing, but it's awesome. And so all the social media they can find it at stare@thewall.org. And then. Lighten up and root down meditation and Sebastian, you can Google that or whatever. And we have meetings every other Friday night, so if anybody's in the area come and lighten up and root down. Or you go to the Pelican Landing assisted living home. I'm there a lot. Sometimes I go up to death row. So if you're visiting a loved one, you might run into me there. And then we, I go to various like we have a, an ashram called Kashi, and there's this chosen retreat center. They have this big market on Sunday. So I go there with Nicole, my. Lighten up and root down lady.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

And we do sound bowls and show people how to meditate. So I'm out and about.

Speaker:

Awesome. We'll go ahead and link put in the show notes, a link to your website, all your socials, and, if you wanna send me a link to the ashram and wherever else you would like us to find you, we'll include those. If you found this episode helpful, please share with someone who might be facing depression, anxiety, and, just looking for another way to heal that part of them. So don't forget to subscribe and I'll see you next time on overcoming Anything.