Overcoming The Top Podcasting Mistakes with Dave Jackson

Episode 038 — Overcoming the Top Podcasting Mistakes with Dave Jackson

If your podcast isn’t growing, it’s rarely because you “need more marketing.” More often, it’s because something in the foundation is quietly working against you—unclear positioning, a confusing show name, weak content delivery, inconsistent scheduling, or not truly knowing your audience. In this episode of Overcoming Anything, host Anne Vryonides sits down with podcasting expert Dave Jackson to break down the most common mistakes that stall podcasts—and the simple (but not always easy) fixes that actually move the needle. 

Dave Jackson is a podcasting consultant, speaker, author, and a 2018 Podcasting Hall of Fame inductee. He’s worked with thousands of podcasters and has seen firsthand what separates the podcasts that grow from the podcasts that fade out—and in this conversation, he gives you a roadmap you can apply immediately. 

Key Takeaways
• “Simple but not easy”: growth comes down to content + delivery—great ideas don’t land if the execution doesn’t match
• If you have to explain your show name, it’s too “cute”—clarity wins (especially for search)
• The fastest improvement lever is feedback: you can’t always “see your own stuff,” and audience insight makes you someone’s favorite 

Timestamps
• 00:00 — Introduction: the top mistakes that keep podcasts from growing 
• 02:10 — Dave’s mantra: Jeremiah 29:11 and trusting the long game 
• 05:00 — “I need more listeners”: why growth problems usually trace back to content 
• 08:30 — Naming mistakes: why “cute” titles hurt search and confuse new listeners 
• 12:30 — Niche vs broad: why deeper often beats wider (and how this differs from YouTube) 
• 18:00 — New podcaster strategy: start with audio, time your process, and choose a sustainable schedule 
• 23:00 — Content research hacks: Amazon reviews, YouTube comments, Reddit, and community listening 
• 29:00 — Building an audience: go where they are, make friends first, and stop spamming 
• 35:00 — The missing feedback loop: why most podcasters publish “rough drafts” and wonder why they stall 
• 41:00 — Shy? Afraid to start? “Nobody can punch you in the face” + Zig Ziglar’s advice 
• 47:00 — Burnout + quitting: reconnecting to your “why,” and why it can take years to grow 
• 54:00 — The #1 lever: knowing your audience (and how segmentation makes marketing easier) 
• 59:00 — Engagement that works: specific CTAs, deadlines, and “question of the month” tactics 
• 01:05:00 — Recommended books + where to find Dave 

Connect with Dave Jackson
• Dave’s website: https://schoolofpodcasting.com | Instagram | Facebook

 Resources
• Podcasting for Profit by Dave Jackson, 

• The Audience Is Listening by Tom Webster

• Big Podcast by David Hooper

If this episode helped you, share it with a podcaster, creator, or founder who’s overwhelmed, stuck at the same download numbers, or ready to quit—because the fix is usually simpler than they think. 

I’ll see you next time on Overcoming Anything.
 ❤️ Anne

Disclaimer
The content of this episode is for informational and inspirational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional therapy, diagnosis, legal, or medical care.

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Transcript

Speaker 0:00

Welcome to Overcoming Anything, the podcast where we dive deep into stories of resilience, growth, and what it really takes to overcome challenges in life and business. I'm your host, Anne Vryoides and today we're talking about overcoming the top podcasting mistakes. So joining me today is Dave Jackson. He's a podcasting consultant, speaker, author, and was a 2018 podcasting Hall of Fame Inductee. Dave has worked with thousands of podcasters and has seen firsthand what separates podcasts that grow from those that stall out. So welcome to the show, Dave.

Speaker 2 0:33

Oh, happy to be here.

Speaker 0:34

Thank you so much for for being on the show. So before we dive in, I always love to ask, what's one quote or mantra that keeps you going in tough times?

Speaker 2 0:42

Probably a bible, Bible verse. Jeremiah 29 11. Says, for, I know, let's see if I remember this for, I know the plans I have for you, declares The Lord Plan is to prosper you and not to harm you. Plan is to give you hope in a future. So if I've taken a left turn and I'm going, why is this happening to me? I'm like, okay, let's wait six months. There's probably something that I'll go, oh, I now see why this happened. My, my favorite example of that is I grew up in a church. And to make a long story short, they broke up. I've never seen a church break up and I, at the time I was like, why did this happen? But it turns out that the pastor of that church went on to be one of the number one church conflict, people. He goes around and helps churches in conflict. And six months later you go, oh, I get why that guy had to go through that. Now he's got firsthand knowledge. That's something that keeps me going.

Speaker 1:26

Yeah, definitely. It sounds like God was preparing him for his calling.

Speaker 2 1:29

Yeah.

Speaker 1:30

Awesome. From your experience, what is the most common struggle that, podcasters come to you with?

Speaker 2 1:35

Yeah, it's funny. There are two things that are almost like Siamese twins joined at the hip kind of thing. They'll say, I need help growing my audience. And I will say, great, let's talk about your content. And they will immediately say, oh, I don't have any problem with the content. And I'm always funny how those two go hand in hand because most of the time it's the content podcasting isn't really, I always say it's simple, but it's not easy. And it's, it boils down to content. And delivery. 'cause you could have the world's, you could have breaking news, but if it sounds like this, and I'm like, that's not gonna work. Or if you deliver it through a monotone or you could have the best equipment and a really great set of pipes. But if you're talking about grass growing, that's not gonna work either. And so they're just little things. People get cute with their names. Where I had one guy, I just had one last week. The name of the show was, the fifth column. And I said, that could be about spreadsheets, it could be about architect. There are all sorts of different things it could mean. And I always say when you name your show, go ask. Some people say, Hey, I'm doing a show called Blank. What do you think it's about? And when their answer matches your show, you've got a good name. I remember once I, was doing kind of a test show. And it was called the Podcast Rodeo Show. And if you hear that, you would think the show is about the Rodeo Show. And it's not. And I would say, oh, it's where I grab a random podcast and see how long I can hang on. If you have to explain the name of your show, you've picked a bad one. So that's being rebranded to fix my podcast., If I go to somebody, they go, Hey, I'm doing a show called Fix My Podcast. What do you think it's about? They're gonna go. I don't know, probably advice about how to fix your podcast, So you want it to be obvious. You have to put your hat on and go, what would my audience be searching for? When they're looking for this topic and then, use that. And that's where if you do get cute, I had somebody once that had the show called, they called it The Dugout and they're like, it doesn't show up when I search for baseball. I go, the word baseball is nowhere in the title of your show and nowhere in the title of your episodes. And so I said, most books have a tagline. And so to be, I said, make it the dugout, colon, an unofficial major League Baseball podcast. Blah, blah, blah. Et cetera, et cetera. I said, 'cause you have to,, they have to find you first. And search in, especially Spotify is horrendous. And so you've really gotta make it obvious.

Speaker 3:47

So do you recommend that people niche down with their podcast?

Speaker 2 3:51

Yeah, it's one of those where it, and this is the answer of every podcast question. It depends, and that is if when you niche down. You end up with a smaller audience, but they're just like, oh my gosh, did you read my diary? How did you know I needed this podcast? And so they're much more passionate about it, where I always say, you're standing in line at the grocery store and the person behind you or in front of you turns around and goes, oh, I can't believe this line. Huh? And you're like, yep. And then you talk about the weather and. Whatever. And it's very just superficial, nothing deep there. That's the podcast. If you try to be a podcast for everyone, then, I always say I like to take podcasting out and compare it to something else. So if you look at music I like blues music. But if you start throwing Delta Blues from 1936, and it sounds like. Somebody's playing a guitar underwater while they're frying bacon. That is not my thing. But if you say, oh, it's electric Chicago Blues, I will listen to that all day long. So it really depends on what you're doing and, what the goal is.

Speaker 4:47

So it's better to go deep than wide.

Speaker 2 4:49

Yeah. And in fact, if you compare podcasting to YouTube and contrary to. Popular discussion. YouTube's not a podcast. It's a show. There's no RSS feed. But I do the same exact show. I do it live on Saturday. And that same content goes to YouTube, and the best completion rate I've ever had on YouTube was 39%. The worst completion percentage I've ever had in audio is 79. So I always say that yes, YouTube is a channel, and yes, they have discoverability, but it appears to be, at least for me, a survey of one, it's a mile wide and an inch deep. Where a podcast, an audio podcast is much more an inch wide and a mile deep. I used to work for Libson and Bill Maher. The comedian launched a video show and we really had to twist his arm to put out an audio version and he didn't want it, and we talked him into it. And then he hired a PR agency that only promoted the video and the audio outperformed the video 15 to one.

Speaker 5:46

Wow,

Speaker 2 5:47

that's pretty

Speaker 5:47

amazing. So

Speaker 2 5:48

yeah, so you're not gonna hear that from YouTube because they want you to put your video over there and you're not gonna hear it from Spotify 'cause they want you to put their video over there. But all in all, it just comes down to I can listen to your show in the car or while I'm doing the dishes or while I'm walking the dog, but I can't do, I can't watch your show while, my eyes are busy. And so there's just more opportunities to, to listen. And I'm not anti YouTube, I always just say. Just realize it's more work, it's more time and probably more engagement on the audio side, even though it's so easy to get comments on YouTube. But those are also comments from trolls. So be careful what you ask for, but, I have so many people with great ideas. And I go, great. Why haven't you started your podcast? And they're like, eh I don't wanna do video. And I'll go, you don't have to do video. And they go, no. Everybody says you have to do video. And I go, no. Everybody has a name. It's called YouTube. And of course they want you to do video, but you don't have to.

Speaker 6:39

Wow. That's reassuring because I know a lot of times when people wanna start a podcast, they're like, oh, I need to do video. I need to do audio on the podcasting side and then also do the videos. And it can become overwhelming when you're starting out 'cause you're like, I have to do all the channels, then I have to do social media. So what do you recommend as a strategy for your, newbies that are starting a podcast?

Speaker 2 7:00

Yeah. I always say start off first with audio. And get used to making content. And then if you want to. Go to video, but I also say, when you first start off time, get your phone out, whatever you want to use time, whatever you're doing. So if you're doing research for an episode, time it, when you record the episode, time it, when you edit it, time it when everything gets timed and then you're gonna get done and go, wow, that 15 minute podcast took me an hour and a half. And I'm like, yep. And I go, do you have an hour and a half every week to do a podcast? And they go, probably not. And I'm like, okay, then it either needs to be shorter. Or you're not doing a weekly show. It's just cause so many people try. They pick their schedule before they record their show. They're like, I'm gonna do a daily show. And as soon as somebody says that to me in my brain, I don't say it out loud. I go, no you're not. Because a daily show is just a grind in it. It, there are people with teams that can do it, but I always say, record that first episode and then see how long it is. Then pick your schedule. Because it might be every other week, or it was gonna be three times a week, and now it's gonna be once a week. Because what happens is people try to squeeze their life into their podcast, and that is backwards. You wanna squeeze your podcast into your life. If the life goes away, the podcast goes away. So you don't wanna burn yourself out.

Speaker 8:11

Makes sense. Makes sense. So you had mentioned before when someone is, starting a podcast and you said that, you've had the feedback where someone was like, oh my gosh, you read my mind. That's exactly what I was thinking. How do you suggest that podcasters are able to dial in that content? Like how do you suggest they do their research?

Speaker 2 8:30

Yeah, I like to go over to, there are a couple ways, Amazon. Type in your topic, whatever it is, and find books and look for four star and two star reviews. And you're like, wait, why two and four? Because two is this is the worst book I've ever read, but they did do this, so I didn't give them a one. A four would be like, this was a good book, but they didn't talk about blank. So you get much more, detailed, criticism and praise on that Same thing if you go to YouTube, type in your topic. Look for the, most popular, channel and then go to their channel and sort the, videos by popularity. So I'm now seeing the most popular topics, and that's where you can go into the comments and again, you'll see people like, this was great. I can't believe you talked about this. I never see this anywhere. Or you'll have those people are like, this was great. I love this, but. It took you 18 minutes to get to the topic, and I wish you would've put in chapters or something like that. So that's a way to do that. And then, there's Reddit, and then I go to a lot of events. And a lot of events. I'm just listening. I always say, if you can tell me the eye color of your audience, you're in the right place. But most of the time it's just listening, finding groups online, Facebook, et cetera, et cetera. And just seeing what people are talking about. And then you know you're not guessing. Does my audience want this? You're like, no. I've seen this question five times now in a Facebook group. I know people are looking for this.

Speaker 9:46

So how much time do you suggest that a podcaster, spend a week doing research?

Speaker 2 9:52

It all depends on, again, there's that answer again, it depends on how long the episode is. If it's a five minute show. You might, go over to Reddit and see a question and go, Ooh, I've never talked about that. Well done. If you've got the answer in your head. Now, if you have to research your answer, that's a whole different story. And that's where, Google and perplexity and all the tools, research is getting much easier these days, especially with ai. But that does mean you have to verify your answer cause. We all start with no audience and integrity and you don't want to go quoting something that AI made up and you find out later was completely false. For me, I spend probably 15 minutes a day on Reddit and in Facebook and then I use a tool called Note Joy. But you can use whatever you want. 'Cause so many people go, it's so hard coming up with ideas. And my response to that is you have ideas, you're just not writing them down. So there are times when it's Wednesday and I have a show coming out on Monday and I go, I got nothing. And I'll go into my note joy and I'll be like, oh, I totally forgot about this idea or this idea. And it's because I wrote it down when it came to me. We all get brilliant in the shower. And when you come out write those down, you're like, oh, I totally forgot about that. And yeah, it's, and again, that's one of those things you want to time because you know some, like I said, some days it's five minutes, other days it's a half hour. 'cause my thing is after a while. You are like, I can't talk about that again. I've already talked about it twice. And so you're trying to find a, either a new angle on it or something like that, but it's great when you get something that's completely new and that's where just being in your community and listening to what people are struggling with.

Speaker 11:23

Okay. And you referenced audience before, so if someone is new and they don't really have an audience how do you suggest that they build that audience?

Speaker 2 11:31

Yeah, it boils down to this, and again, this sounds simple and it is, but it's not easy. So first of all, who is your audience? And it can't be everyone because even if I say, it's males 25 to 50, there is a huge difference between a 25-year-old guy and a 50-year-old guy. Or if you're like, oh, it's for widows. There's Karen who lost Carl at the age of 48 in a car wreck. And then there's Mildred who lost Harold at the age of 102. You really have to know who is my audience and then what they want. And you do that by talking to them, listening to them, forums, groups, Facebook, Reddit, whatever, books in some cases. Then from there, go to where they are. And so that, again, could be online, offline. I prefer offline, it's hard to get everywhere. But online works. And then the thing you wanna do is listen, this makes me sound ancient, but before Facebook there were these things called forums. And I found a forum for X Radio DJs and I thought, oh man, these guys can get back on the air and podcasting is global. And I swear, I thought I heard Angels and I was like, this is my spot. And so I ran in and I'm like, Hey guys, I'm Dave Jackson from the School of Podcasting. If you wanna get back on the air, I can do it. And it, you can buy a $90 microphone and blah, blah, blah, and follow me. And within 20 minutes they abandoned me. Why? Because if you don't know me. That's called Spam Boys and Girls. And so go to where they are, make friends with them, listen to them, and then tell them about your show or whatever you're doing. And in theory, like they're easy things too. Make sure you have a link to your website and your email signature and you can say things like, oh, I talked about this on my latest podcast. That will cause a lot of, especially Facebook groups, won't let you self promote. But if you say, I talked about this in my latest podcast, yada, yada, yada, and it was really helpful. And then, you deliver value, somebody's gonna DM you and go, what's the name of your podcast? So there are ways like that, and we're all looking for that 10,000 download switch. And as soon as I find it, I will let you know. But the, the one thing that most people miss. Is, we're in the movie business. If you think about it, the movies, they make content, they edit it, and then they have an audience watch it. Like Ron Howard, the famous director and actor, he never releases. He's got 41 different awards and still will not release a movie without watching it with an audience. Why? Because he knows when they're supposed to cry and laugh and et cetera. And if they're not crying and laughing where they're supposed to, he goes back and edits it. And so I think a lot of us skip that. We think, oh this is good, or this is, whatever. And one of the things we do with the School of Podcasting are called listener parties, where you get to watch us listen to your show. cause you know what I'm supposed to giggle or smile and things like that. And we just give constructive feedback like, Hey, just for the record. I'm getting tired of this subject, you're gonna move on and things like that. So really knowing we missed that feedback loop. And I've published a book and it went through five, I couldn't believe it, five different edits to the point where I was like, really? Are we not done with this? But so many times, and I totally understand that first episode. Takes forever. We're going through the learning curve and we just, we want to be like the guy in the Lion King where we're just like here to, oh, I give you my episode. And, but without feedback, what you may have just done is published what is more or less a rough draft. And then you're like, why isn't this growing? 'Cause you didn't get any feedback. And so the problem is we ask mom. And mom's oh, look at you. Oh, you're so professional. Look at all the lights. Oh. And I go, yeah, notice mom isn't talking about the content. You need somebody to go. And that's hard. 'cause we don't, it's, it's our art, it's our heart and soul. So the last thing we wanna do is put our fingers out to get 'em smashed. But I always tell people, you, you might get one smash, but you got three that are really good. My favorite example is I had a member of the School of Podcasting that said, Dave, you have a typo. And I go, which show? 'cause I have multiple shows. She goes, no, the School of Podcasting. And I said, which episode? And she goes, no, the School of Podcasting. And I go, what do you mean? And she goes, go look at the title of the School of Podcasting in Apple. And it said, school of Podcasting Plan launch Grow Montage. I left off an E. And I always tell people, I'm like, I, I told her name is Kim, new Love. I said, you'll be in every presentation now. I said, because that is a classic example of you can't see your own stuff.

Speaker 15:34

Absolutely. That's so true. So if someone wants to start a podcast and let's say they have a fear, like they have this idea and they're like, oh my gosh, I don't know, I'm not like an extrovert, they're afraid to put themselves out there. What advice would you have for them to just do it?

Speaker 2 15:48

Yeah, the beauty of it. Number one, I was fired from my first job at the age of 16 'cause I was too shy. So you can overcome that. And then I would say podcasting is a great way to meet thousands of people without meeting thousands of people. And so we have a running gag at the School of Podcasting and that is, nobody's gonna punch you in the face cause they're not in the room with you. And if they, if, most people, if they don't like the show, they just swipe left and go delete. Or unsubscribe or whatever it is. And then we always say, you're not a real podcaster until you get your first one star review because this is somebody who, in some ways it's not that your show was bad, it's that they are not your target audience. I wanted this guy to do an interview and it's just him babbling on for 45 minutes. Yeah, it's not an interview show. And so I'm like, that guy's not your target audience and that's why he gave you a one star review. Now you always wanna. Look at those reviews. If they're like, it sounds like I'm underwater frying bacon. Are you like, what are you using for your microphone? Because that guy might have a point. But it's, Zig Ziglar had a great quote. You don't have to be great to start, but you do have to start to be great. And it's funny because at first you're worried nobody's going to listen. And so you will put out your first couple episodes and depending on how many cousins you have, you will get, I don't know, 20 downloads, something like that. And then if you've done your homework and you've gotten some feedback, it'll start to grow. cause you have, if I start off and I have 21 people, that means I have a team of 21 that can help me promote it. And if you slowly and specifically and concisely ask them to share the show with a friend. Some of them are gonna do it, not all 21, but a couple of them will. And so that leads on and on, and it's just one of those things that they then go from, nobody's going to listen to, oh wow, holy cow. People are starting to listen to this. And then they start to freak out because they do have an audience. And I always just say, everybody that's listening to you wants you to win. Nobody is here to watch you fail. One of my favorite examples of this. Is Vince Neil, not Vince Neil. That's the guy from Motley Crew. Vince Gill, who's a, this great country singer and his friend George Jones had died and he was singing at his funeral and he was singing this song about somebody dying called Go Rest High on this Mountain. And he gets about half through the first verse and is just, he just can't do it understandably. And the some, I think everybody thinks people are gonna go, how dare you get on stage and lose it, but instead. Way in the back was Garth Brooks and he took off his hat and stood up, we're with you buddy. You got this, and they all stood up in support. And luckily there was a short guitar solo that he played and that kind of gave him a chance to regroup. He came back and sang the chorus and finished the song, it was still pretty hard for him to do. But I go, that's a classic example of nobody's throwing things at him. Like, how dare you ruin the song? Nobody's out there waiting for you. And I think that's just from growing up. We all had our bullies and sometimes our parents weren't very nice. And to quote Bruce Springsteen, we end up like a dog that's been beat too much. And I'm like, the beautiful thing is if you're talking about something. I'll give you an example. Haley Radkey does a show called Adoptees on. And it's all about being adopted because the only people that truly understand what it's like to be adopted are people that have been adopted. And she told me how there are people that will spend years tracking down their biological parents only to be rejected again. And that hurts just to say that out loud. But there are other people that have gone through that. And so she has a Facebook group, I think for people and they all network together. And that's to me is just the beauty of podcasting is nine times outta 10 you end up with some sort of community and you're all helping each other.

Speaker 19:11

Yeah. And the support for sure. So when a podcaster comes to you and they're overwhelmed and let's say ready to quit, what is the first mindset or strategy shift that you recommend that they take?

Speaker 2 19:23

I always ask them, why are you doing this? Because so many times they're like, I want to get the word out there about this whatever thing they're talking about. Maybe I wanna get people to vote a certain way. And I'm like, okay, tell me about your downloads. And they're like, I only have 80 downloads in episode. I go, that's four classrooms of people. I go, that is a hallway in my old building of people that could be listening to satellite radio. They could be playing video games or Netflix or HBO, but they chose to listen to you. And I go, so you know, have you had anybody you know email you or whatever? Because if you don't get your why, you get burned out. And then some of it is, everybody thinks, I just did an episode about this. Everybody thinks 'cause we're used to the microwave, that I can start a podcast and in. I don't know, six weeks, maybe six months, grow an audience and quit my day job. And that is entirely just fiction. It's not gonna work unless you're a celebrity. And even those, a lot of celebrity podcasts are really bad. And so when I did, I, my, the book I did is about monetization. It's called Profit From Your Podcast. And I ask people, how long did it take you to make more than Mountain Dew kind of money? And most of them said around three years. And that's about it. But I looked at things like Seinfeld. It took him nine years of appearing on the Tonight Show to get the Seinfeld TV show. And then it took five years for it to really start ranking. The first two years of the Seinfeld show, it almost got canceled sometimes. Oh, I didn't realize

Speaker 20:43

that.

Speaker 2 20:43

Yeah. So sometimes it takes years for your audience to find you. And what they did is they did one episode that was controversial and that got everybody talking about it. And then people checked it out and then they got lucky. And the fact that the show before them was on Thursday was called Cheers and they quit doing it. So they took over their time slot. So there is a little bit of luck in some cases that plays into that. So I would ask why and just remind them. And in some cases. Maybe they've just, I like, I used to do a show for musicians and I did that for 10 years and after 10 years the music business had changed. I had changed. I wasn't playing music as much and I was like, you know what? This isn't fun anymore. And I went, yeah, it's time to start a new podcast. So I quit that one and started another ones. There are times when it's just like, yeah, life changed. So at that point, you start a new podcast. If you want to about your new passion, let your audience know, Hey, I'm gonna put this one to bed. I'll keep the files open if you wanna check 'em out, but I am starting this new podcast called blah, blah, blah. And a lot of times people come for the content, but they stay for the host. What I was doing, the musician show, I had people that would listen to that and they had followed me over there from the School of podcasting, and I was like, oh. I didn't know you're a musician. What do you play? And they go, oh, I'm not, I just think you're funny.

Speaker 21:53

Oh wow. That's great.

Speaker 2 21:54

Yeah. How powerful. I was like, oh, okay. And that again is where the imposter syndrome kicks in and you're like, wait, you like me? Okay. So it's always fun.

Speaker 22:03

So looking back, is there one decision that makes the biggest difference?

Speaker 2 22:08

That's a great question. The most important thing. It is knowing your audience. Everything boils down to that. The why is important, but the who trumps that because I always say, think of it like a dinner party. If you just said, oh, we're just gonna make pizza, okay, and then somebody shows up and they go, oh, does that have gluten in it? Oh, and then somebody else that goes, is there a vegetarian version? The more you know your audience, there are two things. Number one, you're not just gonna be a good podcast. You're gonna be somebody's favorite. Of a friend of mine, Jay Zo, always says that it looks like you wanna be someone's favorite. And so there's that. And then the other thing is, if you don't, if you know I only have this segment of people, then you only have to market to that segment of people. I don't have to segment to these people or that people or this person cause they're not my target audience. Otherwise, you gotta throw flyers everywhere and business cards and whatever you're gonna do to market your show. But if you know who they are, oh, I only need to go here 'cause that's where my audience is.

Speaker 22:59

So you bring up a good point is segmentation.

Speaker 2 23:01

Yeah.

Speaker 23:01

So how do you identify the segmentation of where your audience is at?

Speaker 2 23:06

It's a matter of always starting a conversation. So if somebody emails me. And that starts by making remarkable content. And that's my new kind of buzz phrase. Why? Because it's content that makes people remark about it. And if you think about anytime you share something with someone, pay attention to yourself. Like, why did I do this? 'cause a lot of times lately I've been sharing things that are very nostalgic, but there are other times when I hear something and I'm like, did you hear what somebody said? And I will share that. But anytime ever somebody ever emails me and says, Hey, I really liked that episode about such and such. I don't just say thanks, thanks for listening. I mean, that's a given. I always ask, is there something you would like me to talk about in the future? And they will often reply back, Dave, you've been doing this forever. I can't think of a topic that you haven't talked about to which I will say, I'm serious. What do you got? Because sometimes I'll cover it again. What's bugging you? What's stopping you? Whatever it is, because. If you want people, especially if you wanna monetize, you gotta solve a problem. And so what's bugging you? What's stopping you, whatever. And 'cause if that one person is thinking it, there's another 5, 10, 20 that are doing the same thing. So anytime I do that, or if I'm on social and somebody, hits me on Facebook or whatever, it's all about. Connecting with your audience. And that could be anywhere. It'd be great if it was one spot, Hey everybody, just go here and I will see you there. But it's email, it's social media. I get voicemail from people and that's always fun when, if they have their, their email in there, I will record a voice message and send it to them. So it's all about connecting. And the fun thing about that is you know that I know that, you just a dude in a spare bedroom, but when they get an email from you with a voicemail, they're like, wait, holy cow. I just got an email. And they freak out. That's what got me into podcasting when I was back in 2005, I'd turned a blog for musicians into a podcast. And within the first month, I got a voicemail from a guy from Nuremberg, Germany. And I'm in the middle of Cowtown Ohio and all of a sudden I hit play on this and it's, hello Dave. This is Michael Van Lar from Nuremberg, Germany. And my brother was standing behind me and he goes, did he say Nuremberg, Germany? And I go, wait, hold on. Hello Dave. We just, we sat there for five minutes. Hello Dave. Hello Dave. Hello. It was just playing it over and over and that's one of those things that, that can really, put gas in your tank. Anytime I have somebody say, Hey, your show helped me, or I was just at an event and I had a woman stop me, and she's. A little on the older side and she said, I've been listening to your show for seven years. Wow. And she goes, I finally started my podcast. I just wanna let you know I couldn't do it without you. And so, I had a conversation with her. Yeah. Because if the more I know my target audience, the better the meal I can make.

Speaker 25:34

How do you create that engagement? Because podcasting is like going down a one way street. So unless you're getting that feedback on your social channels, how do you. Encourage the engagement or have people reach out to you? Or do you just ask?

Speaker 2 25:48

If you ask, you have to be very specific. If you say, Hey, thanks so much for listening. Tell me what you think, I'll talk to you later. See you. Bye. You're gonna get, somebody goes, it's good. So what I do to get engagement, and I'm not asking, although I do surveys, I will at least every year, if not every two or three years, I will do a survey like, is it too long? Is it too short? Et cetera, et cetera. But I also do a question of the month. And so it's not about the show, but a lot of times it's about podcasting. So I think my next one's gonna be, what are your top. Pet peeves. Now I've done that multiple times and I know people are gonna say the same thing, but I just wanna make sure Hey, not getting to the point. Bad audio, unlevel audio there. Some things are never the same. And that's the point of doing that question. Hey look, if you're doing this, people have hated this for five years now. And when I do that. I ha I tell them specifically where to go, school of podcasting.com/question. I need your answer by this date. So there's a deadline there, and I tell them, if you put it in after the deadline, it's the deadline. I'm not gonna, there's, oh, I'm sorry I was late. Get in on the next one. And then I always say, tell me a little bit about yourself and tell me your website address so I can put a link to it in the show notes. And so that's a way that I've gotten to know my audience. And it's every time I do it. And every time I've been doing that for probably 10 years now. Every time I put one out, there's a voice in my head that goes, but what if nobody answers? I'm just, it's the way you're gonna think. And there are times I had one where I think I had three answers and I was like, it's gonna be a short show today, but it is what it is it right. But I had to be specific. Give them a timeline, tell them almost. Not what the answer is, but how to answer it. And that seemed to work. Whereas it was just like, oh, go to school podcasting.com/question. Let me know what you think. That wouldn't work. You gotta be super specific and tell them exactly how and when. And I, I've said I need an audio answer, so you can either record it right there or you can upload it, but I don't really want a text answer 'cause it's an audio podcast. I want to hear your voice.

Speaker 27:38

Got it. So what has podcasting taught you personally about? Patience, consistency, and resilience.

Speaker 2 27:44

Oh man, patience. It's gonna break. Something will break eventually at the most inopportune time. And especially if you do a live show, that's always fun when just in the middle of something live and you got 20 people in a chat room and everything just goes and you're like, okay, so that, I've just learned to roll with the punches and this, it'll be okay. That kind of thing. In terms of resilience, just. Again, focusing on the audience, how they're benefiting, remembering those. If you get that person that says, Hey, your show really boosted me, save that, because they're gonna be days when you're like, oh, I don't wanna do the podcast today. And then you read those things, you're like, oh, I gotta remember, I had one guy, Ryan Jackson emailed me and said, Hey. My best friend of 20 years had died. My job of 20 years had died and I thought I had cancer and he was gonna commit suicide on Halloween. Oh no. And he said, but I heard your podcast and you said that sometimes having a podcast can give you a purpose. So I started a podcast instead, and I credit you with saving my life. And I'm like, I'm in the basement talking about microphones. I did not expect that kind of email. Wow. And what's amazing is I've talked to other podcasters. I'm not the only one who's done that. I have one friend that's had five of those. cause his podcast is somewhat military based, so you've got a lot of guys that got a lot of, things going on in their head. So you never know what the benefit is to somebody. And my background's in teaching, so I'm always, I'm a people pleaser anyway, and I'm driven by. Growing up as the guy on the outside, I don't want people on the outside going, I wish I could do a podcast. I'm like, you can, let me show you how and just resilience. That's a good one. I just always I just don't, I always picture that one person that needs to hear what I am putting out. I'm not really worried about the audience. I'm worried about that one person that needs to hear what I need to say.

Speaker 29:27

I do the same thing, like I guess I am so blessed because I've had the most incredible guest. Like everyone I meet, I just absolutely love, and so I feel like all of my guests that I've had so far just bring such energy and such wisdom. To, to my audience. So I am, I'm truly grateful. So is there a book or a resource other than your own that you would recommend to someone, looking to start a podcast? Or maybe, who needs motivation or inspiration to keep going?

Speaker 2 29:55

Yeah. The one to make your show better. There are a couple, but the one that I, when I read it, I was like, oh, I wish I had wrote or written this book. It's called The Audience is Listening by Tom Webster. And he really goes into kind of what we're talking about here, understanding who your audience is. He's done audience surveys, going back to the eighties, he studied audio. So it's all about really understanding who your audience is. And I jokingly said he should have renamed the book, your Baby is Ugly. But it's, that's kind of what he talks about in that either that or if you need an all encompassing one. A big podcast by David Hooper is not only is it a great book, it's a great weapon, it's really thick and he covers like all sorts of subjects in it. And Dave's a good guy.

Speaker 30:34

Awesome. Great. This has been such an inspiring conversation, thank you so much. Where can people follow you and find your book and learn more about the school of podcasting?

Speaker 2 30:43

Yeah, just go over to school of podcasting.com. And, you'll find my show there and links to contact me if you want to, as well as my book and all sorts of other fun stuff. It's all there@schoolofpodcasting.com.

Speaker 30:54

Excellent. Thank you again Dave, and if you found this episode helpful, please share it with a fellow podcaster or creator who might be struggling right now. So we'll see you next time on overcoming Anything.